DISQUS

alex mann · 1 year ago

If this is true that he followed the police's orders completely, they definitely should not have laid a hand on him. But they don't know your son, he could be some guy trying to start a riot to the police. When they told him to drop the bag and put his hands in the air, you do EXACTLY what they say and don't resist. If he had followed directions completely, they might at the most throw him to the ground and search him and his backpack. He probably didn't put his hands up right away, though unfortunate, the police have a job to do, what if some guy with a bomb in his bag did the same thing but while his hands were down, detonated the bomb? Police are authorized to neutralize any potential threat by any means necessary, even if it means beating them. Don't get me wrong, beating him to a bloody pulp is by no means appropriate, a swift hit in the abdominal area and maybe a smack in the face would have subdued him fine. I just want to clarify my belief that policemen have the right to beat the hell outta someone if he really isn't cooperating. If he had run, or not dropped the bag, then the policemen had a right to beat him. In your son's case, however, since he dropped the bag and backed away, should NOT have been beaten.

anon · 1 year ago

Police do NOT have the right to beat the hell out of someone that isn't cooperating. What they are allowed to do is use the force necessary to subdue the person if they are threatening someone's safety or breaking a law. Often police will beat the hell out of someone just for not being 100% cooperative, and the beating continues well after the person has been subdued (and may not have even been resisting in the first place) just as a punishment because they are ticked off. You seem to be justifying this.

Robin Presley · 1 year ago

I agree with anon, police do not have the right to beat the hell out of citizens! A quick YouTube search on police actions and brutality shows how the police work. Listen and look very carefully at some of the footage. You will see how the person/victim is already down on the ground and not struggling, or if they are it is for air, and the police the whole time yell stop resisting. This is their MO because people passing by will hear this first rather than see it, or will get sensory overload and can't differentiate what they see or hear. How can anyone say that a person deserves to be beat just because they did not put their hands up.

erehwon · 1 year ago

How should the police have behaved over the past few days? Should they have acted to defend our right to protest in our cities? Should they walk past a woman holding out a flower, or pepperspray them (http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2008/09/01/peppe... Should journalists wearing credentials be able to do their work of reporting and informing, or be arrested and charged with felony riot?

What looks like criminal activity here? Are the police above the law? Is this still a Nation of Laws, or of men?

webslinger · 1 year ago

THE POLICE MAY NOT USE ANY FORCE NECESSARY TO NEUTRALIZE A THREAT!!!!! - At all times, an officer must use REASONABLE force to subdue and detain, if there is no threat, then any physical action must stop. If the boy was on the ground with his hands raised, he was not a threat - end of story....if a physical act must be done, it should be to the legs, NEVER the face.....Down means DOWN...and when you are lying on the ground in a fetal position, that's not resisting.

If this is true, then it is disgusting and at the very least, the police chief and mayor need to be taking these accusations seriously. Already we have seen video of improper conduct and improper arrests. The charges that are being brought are not sustainable, however, potential charges against the officers may be.

Robin Presley · 1 year ago

sad news, the officers will not be charged with anything. They will have a story and stick to it, I promise you that! Officials will say that they did what was in accord with procedures. As I stated in a previous post, officers might get investigated and even stand trial but they do not do time.

Jason · 1 year ago

so messed up.. The cops around my building were definitely all huge assholes, I hope everything works out for this family.

Jenna · 1 year ago

Remember 9/11: the blanket excuse to beat children senseless anywhere on the planet.

Best wishes for Keith and your family. I hope you can sue the SPPD for some of that $50 million in overtime the government has paid them to attack and brutalize our citizens.

Romney · 1 year ago

They had exactly what was coming to them. You don't see republicans throwing fits and riots about their differences with the democrats.

Not anyone Important · 1 year ago

So, a peaceful kid deserved to get the crap beaten out of him? There's appropriate action, and this was not it. Anyone with sense and half a heart can see how out of line this was. I don't think the police should be sued, but there should be some accountability when actions like this are taken. We are the United States, we're supposed to be the seat of civilization and culture, not some random police state that abuses it's citizenry out of sheer frustration and high emotions. For five men it's quite easy to subdue a 17 year old boy, cuff and book him without the brutality. Yes, he might not even have deserved that, but at least in a nigh-riot situation it would have been annoying but at least understandable. But to beat him, take him in without his Miranda, then dump him on unknown streets without charging him and without contacting his parents is wrong. It doesn't matter if he's Democrat or Republican, he's a kid, a citizen, and a human being. We are supposed to be better than that.

Robin Presley · 1 year ago

Believe it not, officers do not always read you your rights on the spot. They do their best to delay that. Do a search for the John Reid Method and you will be enlightened on police tactics. What can happen is that they might get you to sign a waiver saying that you understand your rights and this can happen after they have already interrogated you. And if you are in a state of shock and know you did not do anything wrong, and believe that if you just explain everything it will all be ok, you will sign anything, because you believe you are innocent. This is a very bad thing to do. Never sign anything, remain silent, only speak to demand a lawyer. They are not kidding when they say anything you say will be held against you. Anything and everything you say will be twisted and then turned against you. Again, just search for the John Reid Method and if you don't find it like that, then search for "How it works," then enter police interrogations and you will find it.

Lena Tomaszek · 1 year ago

That is very untrue. Have you ever been to a democratic rally? Or a protest? There are many, many protesters there. When I was at the John Kerry rally of 2004 in Milwaukee, WI, near 50 protesters stood around directly outside the location of the rally, shouting into megaphones. They were also stopping parents of young children, including my own mother, to ask them why they were corrupting their children by exposing them to politics at such a young age. So weather you've ever been to a protest or not, many people, both republicans and democrats, protest. In case my previous comments have not made my point clear, here is a link to a YouTube video of republicans protesting at the DNC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb84xVMbfqA&feat... I am 13 years old, and I already know more about protesting than you. That is extremely sad. In my closing, I would like to reming everyone about the Right to Free Speech, and that all the other protesters are doing nothing wrong.

Ageekymom · 1 year ago

"Had it coming to them"?!?! What a priggish statement! Are you the same guy that says that when a woman wearing a short skirt gets raped she "had it coming"?!?

Kim · 1 year ago

Romney -- no, they just go into UCC churches and Alabama Democratic offices and shoot them.

Paul · 1 year ago

What do you have against Alabama? Who are "they"? Talk about biased thinking. All commentary about what happened are based on only one viewpoint of what happened and even that viewpoint isn't verified by factual information so it is only heresay. You people talk about freedoms and rights but there wouldn't be any without the rule of law. Grow Up....

Julian · 1 year ago

Here's what she's talking about you ignorant fool

http://blogs.rep-am.com/matters_of_faith/?p=182

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/13/arkansas.sh...

How could a person who follows the news not know about this? Oh, thats right, you just came on here to insult liberals, not because you're actually informed about what goes on in this country.

Joe · 1 year ago

You are a total douche bag

Romney · 1 year ago

Sorry, I forgot to mention, I do feel bad for the people that were involved..

akiva weisinger · 1 year ago

forgot to mention???? sir, the first thing you do when you see a story from a mother about her 17 year old son getting beaten the crap out of by the police is feel bad for those involved. You don't just say "they had it coming" regardless of what you actually felt for the people involved. I do not like to resort to profanity, but you sir, are an incredible douchebag, and a disgrace to decent people everywhere. f--- you.

Anonymous · 1 year ago

This seems quite a secondhand story. If there were someone else's perspective added in, quotes, images, video, etc. I'd side with one or the other, but until that's presented, he could have been a hellraiser for all you know. It's lovely that you are able to trust your son, but there's the cold hard fact that teenagers don't tell their parents everything.

Please don't call Oprah until you hear everyone's side.

Mary Posa · 1 year ago

Photos and video have now been added. Please check them out and reassess your stance.

Richard · 1 year ago

The video was worthless. He comes across as a spoiled brat. The pictures are unverified.

erehwon · 1 year ago

Wake up, Richard. If these reports had come from Tienanmen Square in Peking, you'd be supporting the student, not the militia.

Keith was free to participate in a protest, and didn't know it was a brave act to do so. Having read this, do you think you are still free? Or brave? Are the police protecting the people and the constitution, or the current government?

Myra · 1 year ago

My son is not much younger than this. This is disgusting behavior, and I don't honestly know how these officers can look at themselves in the mirror after this. I believe the story, and I'm not surprised. The cops are not heroes, they are bullies. I have been watching the story since Sunday, and I see the police as the ones instigating violence, not the "anarchists".

I hope Keith recovers quickly and that there is some justice for this.

Brittany · 1 year ago

There were no anarchists, no violence of any sort tonight; we even pledged out loud we would be peaceful and "not do any stupid shit" because there were children and people in wheelchairs in the crowd. But when the COP told us we were "an unlawful gathering" and to run up the street if we didn't want to get gassed, I assumed we would have more than the three seconds they gave us. I ran when he told me to, and I still got gassed. And older lady sitting on the front steps of a CHURCH, who had nothing to do with the protesters, had to run. How can they justify this?

Mark Stewart · 1 year ago

To be fair, some protesters have been violent, and a few weapons seem to have been taken. This doesn't justify what happened to this young man, especially in terms of the way he was released as described, and it doesn't justify officers beating him. The comments about there being no way to know what actually happened when officers confronted the young man have validity.

If people want to look for instances of the police at the RNC taking action that can't be justified under any circumstances, try http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=5710888...

dirtyspeed · 1 year ago

That is a extremely black and white assessment.

jonerik · 1 year ago

The reason this kid was beat up was because he was engaging in peaceful and lawful assembly, a right supposedly protected by the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution. The reason the police, (and the FBI remember because this was a USA Patriot Act funded operation), were in force in this area of St. Paul was to intimidate people from engaging in peaceful and lawful assembly and their right to express their opinions to other people. Many, maybe a majority, of smug and close minded citizens of Minnesota and the rest of this country have no tolerance for nonconforming views and actions. These people really would have been and would be just as happy living in East Germany or the USSR before their collapse. They do not want to hear anything but the happy talk about how flawless and perfect a country we live in and that no country which is so perfect and flawless can be a police state which grinds innocent people under a jack boot if they do not espouse the party line. The parents of this lad have every reason to be proud of their son who has the courage of standing up for what he believes. I encourage them and their son to pursue every avenue of legal relief not just against the City of St. Paul but against the federal government, the FBI and the Republican Party which bought and paid for this mutilation of the Constitution.

A lot of these people think this police state action does not affect them.

Mark Stewart · 1 year ago

Does anyone remember what happened to protesters at the last RNC?

Heartbroken Citizen · 1 year ago

Jonerik, you have hit on something concerning the Patriot Act--it is wrongfully being used on American citizens. Apparently, this is how they got Elliot Spitzer. Pretty damn scary when laws meant to catch terrorists are being used for domestic situations and thus treating American citizens as if they are enemy combatants.

Emmett Doyle · 1 year ago

Normally the police in Minnesota and the twin Cities are peaceful, but they've been getting outrageous with the RNC going on- pepper spray, unwarranted searches, backhand dealing. It's not pretty down there. I was going to go down to the cities and protest (I live in Minnesota and am a pacifist), but I was warned against it by some of my friends in the cities. That our police did this to your son is nothing short of a shameful mark on the law enforcement of Minnesota and on the riot police in particular. As a Minnesotan, I can only offer my sincere apologies that our police force did this to your son and tell you that we wish him a full recovery from this senseless attack.

The Rev. · 1 year ago

I have emailed the mayor and the chief requesting an investigation. Sadly, at this point, neither appears to be owning up to any misconduct. Still, if more of us let them know that this merits an investigation (let the chips fall where they may), it might happen. If the family starts a fund to sue or in some other way hold St. Paul accountable, I will support it with a small donation.

Note: the email addresses I have used: chris.coleman@ci.stpaul.mn (this cannot be verified);
john.harrington@ci.stpaul.mn.us (this is from the PD web site)

Heartbroken Citizen · 1 year ago

Rev, I applaud your efforts, but do a quick search on the web and consult a lawyer and you will find that you cannot sue the police for these matters. For one, law enforcement will say that officers were in accord with procedures and two, it is considered a frivolous suit. If you do get to sue, and you loose, you will be responsible for all costs. The police and judges are immune to these kind of lawsuits. You have to prove malice and you will find that laws are written unilaterally and not in your favor. We had something of a nightmare happen to our family a year ago concerning law enforcement and we made a formal complaint against the department and the exact wording was "we have investigated your claim and found it untrue, meaning unfounded"...we wrote legislators, called the media, no one listened or cared. But when my niece's dog got stolen, the media was out at her house reporting on it (no joke!)...police brutality--nothing. Sorry to be the bearer of such gloomy tidings, but I feel it is my duty to let people know that the rights they think they have, do not work the way they think they do. the only case that I know of (of course there may be more) where police and a judge were up for a lawsuit in in John Grisham's book "An Innocent Man." Based on the Ron Williamson case in Oklahoma--very scary and enlightening book. Anyway, the case was settled out of court for an undisclosed amount and the records are sealed.

Jane · 1 year ago

You have my heartfelt sympathy as a mother and as a citizen of this messed up country.

Nick · 1 year ago

They call this the land of the free?

Richard · 1 year ago

More like the right to make a total fool out of yourself, and cry to mommy when things get out of hand. Then talk to a biased newsource, pump it full of unverifiable facts, sprinkle in sympathetic morons = profit!

ORLY? · 1 year ago

So....he kicked his own ass?

Heartbroken Citizen · 1 year ago

Richard, a year ago out family underwent a nightmare involving law enforcement and so I sympathize with this family. However, I am glad to see that you are asking probative questions. I hope that if you ever have to serve on a jury, you will be as critical and probative and not just take the word of officers. Many times people tend to think that if officers had to get involved then you must have done something wrong. After all, there are millions of people in this country who go through life and never get into trouble. I use to think this way and I admit that I came down on the side of law enforcement. Now, I know differently. I am not trying to assume anything about you. I just wanted to say that I hope you use that skepticism on all parties involved.

kimmy · 1 year ago

yes, the free to do as you are told.

Anonymous · 1 year ago

Anyone else notice that there's nothing verifiable in this account?

Richard · 1 year ago

Just a extremely biased "independent" news source given a story by another even more biased family member.

Richard · 1 year ago

You don't have the right to block traffic. Until the parents sue, I call shenanigans on the beating.

Shay · 1 year ago

So everyone here just about, is going to take a COMMENT to a story seriously,

This is an example of what IS wrong with this country.

SHEEPLE.

Believe what u hear and not fact.

Until a REPUTABLE newspaper reports verifiable facts, and not the typical "MY SON IS A GOOD BOY!" crap, then I will take it seriously,

Richard · 1 year ago

There is no story, only a tale spun by a teen trying to make himself out to be a martyr.

z-man · 1 year ago

Hehe. You will believe a newspaper. What a tool.

FED-UP-WITH us-LIES · 1 year ago

AND WHAT REPUTABLE NEWSPAPER WOULD THAT BE YOU DUMB SHIT!?
OH....you mean the ones that lied about the WMDs in Iraq?...the ones that lied about the "dead" SAUDIS ON THE 9-11 PLANES?...THE ONES THAT ARE STILL ALIVE?....WAKE-UP IDIOT...THERE ARE NO REPUTABLE NEWS SOURCES IN AMERICA.....UNLESS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ONES THAT ARE SAYING THAT THE RUSSIANS ATTACKED THEIR OWN PEOPLE IN gEORGIA...KILLING 1,900 OF THEM ...OF COURSE,...THAT MUST BE THE "REPUTABLE" WHORES !

Jerry · 1 year ago

He doesn't look peaceful. I see a punk sitting in the street holding a club. The guy looks like he is trying to incite a riot.

Paul · 1 year ago

He's holding a jingle bell, Jerry. Pretty dangerous stuff.

anon · 1 year ago

hahahaha, it's freaking jingle bells....I hope you're joking.

Paul · 1 year ago

That's what they were. A line of bells on a stick, not Jerry's scary "club." Saw it with my own eyes.

Richard · 1 year ago

I wonder what he had been doing earlier... possibly with the group of pseudo-anarchists who took to the streets vandalizing cars, smashing windows, and being general dicks.

Heartbroken Citizen · 1 year ago

Even if he was, it is not law enforcements task to administer street justice. Officers enforce the law, that is all.

z-man · 1 year ago

If the story be true, idiots like you were probably the culpable.

lol · 1 year ago

thats a rainstick bitch

Robert · 1 year ago

The cops should have kicked his moms ass too...
There is a time for protests and there is a time to pull together and elect some folks that will fix what's wrong with our country, making idiots out of yourselves in front of the world gives is not helpful.

Get a life, your little "protest" did nothing but show how ignorant your side is. More to life than a college professor's opinion.

jth · 1 year ago

"...there is a time to pull together and elect some folks that will fix what's wrong with our country"

We did that last week in Denver.

This week is for peaceful demonstration of public opinion. The first amendment assures us that it is ALWAYS time for that.

erehwon · 1 year ago

Obviously, Robert, you hate America for its freedom. Are you from Al Qaeda?

anon · 1 year ago

You might want to check yourself, your nazi side is showing. I mean that. You are whats wrong with this country. Now go back to beating your wife.

peace · 1 year ago

Look for him right after they put the person in the ambulance or police wagon, he is the one with the white shirt and blood on his hands. Crazy world ! He's just a kid.

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peace · 1 year ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ktyEPQHbvM

peace · 1 year ago

He's in this one too, being arrested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d24r9DoH2-8

D · 1 year ago

Sorry to hear about your son, but this type of treatment is commonplace for much of america.
I am going to assume that you middle class (60-120k) ,obviously white and from where? O yea Minnesota.

Now that it has happened to you it a big deal...not so much when it happens to black or mexican or asian kids, right?

What i am saying is get over it...we have learned to live with this treatment so should you.
Perhaps you can learn from the folks in DC...they were also tired of this treatment.

99.9 % of police are terrible people.

jth · 1 year ago

He's from Wisconsin, presumably, since the concert he organized was in Menomenie.

ORLY? · 1 year ago

Are you retarded? If you've learned to live with treatment like this, that only speaks to your inability to grow a set and do something about it. It's complacency like "get over it" that is the reason its commonplace.

99.9% of people who lay down and take it actually DO deserve what they get, BECAUSE they laid down and took it. If you're not willing to stand up for your freedoms, then you aren't worthy or deserving of them. Acting like someone with some actual principles should get over it just because you have no spine is just stupid.

wahinekoa · 1 year ago

Orly, right on. Actually I think the better and more PC term would be intellectually and perhaps morally challenged don't you think? You are dead on correct -- if you not willing to stand up for your freedoms then you aren't worthy or deserving of them -- so you shouldn't be surprised that it continues now in St. Paul. Don't you love the way we still "judge" people by the way they dress? Small minded dickless wonders. We all need to get off our asses and stand up and take this country back. Vote for anyone OTHER than a republican -- their nothing more than mindless, manipulating, narrow-minded thugs no more interested in protecting the foundations upon which this country was founded than they are in rationally considering the possibility that any other view than their own holds any validity. They have hijacked and corrupted this government. BEING AMERICAN is believing in, defending and UPHOLDING our Constitutional rights NOT looking for every means to corrupt the process for political and financial gain for the select "annointed" few. We should be ashamed of what we have permitted over the past eight years!

Brodgy Tepps · 1 year ago

This is disgusting. Disgusting, horrifying, demented, devasting....It's sickening and it deeply wounds my heart to hear something like this. I always assumed too that the police in any given city were to protect and serve and I know it's a hard job and they try to do their best...That's what I thought. I thought they America was a place where we can grow up knowing that we are a oupenminded nation and that we can grow up knowing that we can believe anything that we choose (provided that it does no physical/mental harm on others- golden rule people), be part of any party we believe in and hold peaceful protests without fear of harm. Does the government fear us that much? Are we really truly a threat to them when we lay out a peaceful protest and try to get our points across by being "good" citizens! I don't think anyone would say that your son was in the wrong, ma'am...

Chris · 1 year ago

Public demonstrations/talks are privileges, not rights. People who block traffic and/or destroy/damage
property deserve a loss of such freedoms. Moreover, police would not require TOUGH RESPONSES
if people would just behave. PRACTICE YOUR MESSAGE OF PEACE, OR SHUT UP!!!!!!

I am delighted that law enforcers both raided schmucks' homes and beat the crap out of those evil
people. Wellstone sucks, too!!!!!

Jon · 1 year ago

Wrong. That's why it's called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Priveleges.

ORLY? · 1 year ago

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


^^Bill of RIGHTS; Amendment One. Not privileges, RIGHTS.

Glad to know the educational system in this country is still top notch, as you've demonstrated with your amazing brain-power.

Chris · 1 year ago

Liberalism is a mental disorder. It is both oppressive and regressive, not progressive. It cheats, discriminates, extorts, gauges, kills, lies, rapes, and steals for profit. This agenda deserves
defeat!!

Also, Republicans earn criticism for being liberal, not for being conservative. Members of both liberalism and RINOism can shove it up their butts.

Chris · 1 year ago

POLICE BRUTALITY ROCKS!!!! I love it!!!

Julie · 1 year ago

There were many other unlawful and violent attacks during this protest - http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/2/stream
this is from democracy now - the video shows a friend of mine who was a press agent covering the protest, who was violently assaulted and arrested by the police, despite the fact that her press passes were visible around her neck. Later on in this episode their story is fully disclosed (I recommend you watch it). A journalist from New York Post (a Republican publication!) was also attacked and arrested. Perhaps you can contact these two organizations, and tell them your story, and somehow you all can come together to figure out a way to present this atrocity to the state of MN??

OneCitizen · 1 year ago

If you haven't contacted them already, you should probably get in touch with the ACLU as soon as possible. Those officers are dangerous and should be held accountable.

Sage · 1 year ago

This breaks my fcking heart. How can someone even think beating the hell out of someone will set them straight?? All of this makes me sick.
Peace kids, peace.

Sean · 1 year ago

The police are under lo legal obligation to protect anyone who isn't their prisoner. The police are NOT YOUR FRIENDS, they are protecting the state and the state no longer represents The People.

Dave · 1 year ago

Sounds to me like he deserved it.

mace · 1 year ago

fuck you dave. You are just one of the sheeple of this country. Now go do what you are told.

Michael · 1 year ago

Im watching these events unfold from Australia and it's so disturbing to see what is happening to the America I love so much. Attitudes like yours Dave are so dangerous but even worse ,you probably think you are inmmune from the very same thing happening to you. Do you think the police have some sort of magic sight and can see into your mind and that you believe this kid-who looks pretty harmless to me sitting in front of -what looked to be jack-thugs-do you actually think if you were walking down the street and suddenly got caught up in a situation as this boy did-that these same thuggish police would say.."oh don't touch Dave, he's one of us-just beat up the others..everyone can see Dave's a good bloke and hates "libruls" etc so lets not touch Dave !!"

Well of course not-your skull woukld be being cracked as well and you would be throen in the clink along with this kid. And when you say to the duty cop "but this kid deserved it and I like cops and want them to beat up protestors" they'd just say "shut the f**k up you little t**d or well come in there and do you over again.". Sadly Dave-that's reality-not whatever scebario you have constructed in your mind where you think you are immune from all this lawlessness from those meant to keep the law. Just remember-in Germany in '35 they just came to take away the troiblemakers-and then they decided to take awy the gays-then the Gypsies-then the Jews-then the Libruls..and you Dave -then they'll come to take away you,

dreadpiraterobert · 1 year ago

America the Beautiful. This is your Republican party in action... a little bit more like China every day.

CT · 1 year ago

It's easy to say "he deserved it" when you don't share his politics. Instant blind spot.

It's going to be real easy for people to say that YOU deserved it when you get the snot beaten out of you by dysfunctional cops in the future. I have a lot of friends who are cops and it pisses me off that their jobs are getting even more dangerous thanks to idiots in riot gear in Minnesota. Or Seattle, or Miami, or Denver, New York, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles or New Orleans. If you're going to be a cop, get it right or go join a militia squad instead.

Stephanie Hemphill · 1 year ago

Melissa - will you please call me? I'm a reporter with Minnesota Public Radio. Thank you.
Stephanie Hemphill, 651-290-1305

The World is Flat · 1 year ago

Take it to court, have everyone give their facts and let our judicial system do its best to work it out. Articles, emails and accounts like this are one-sided and are never wholly accurate. That's why we have several systems set up in our system of government--to make up for the others when they fail us.

paulschmelzer · 1 year ago

The kid won't have his day in court. He was released without charge, although he says he was told he'd be charged with conspiracy to riot.

ORLY? · 1 year ago

He may not have a criminal trial for what they claimed they would be charging him with, but I can bet there will at least be hearings when they file formal complaints against the officers, charge them with assault, and sue the city, county, police squad, and officers individually, like pretty much any decent lawyer would insist on if there is even ONE witness.

Heartbroken Citizen · 1 year ago

Charges will not be brought against the officers. Formal complaints are useless. I have been there. If there are and they win their case, please, please, please refer that lawyer to me!

Jorges · 1 year ago

Send him to me as I would love to give him a second beating for being such a whiner.

he put himself into that situation.

Jac Citer · 1 year ago

I hope you find a good lawyer and sue the daylights out of the minneapolis PD.
This is so unbelievable in this version of America; it disgusts me as it should all patriotic Americans.

peace_thru_violence · 1 year ago

Thank God this young man was beaten bloody by police protecting our freedoms rather than by the jackbooted thugs of some fascist or communist dictatorship.

Are you sure he's not a Mooslim? Cause that would explain a lot.

Mirar · 1 year ago

What??? He's Buddhist. Would it matter if he was Muslim? Get a brain you racist. Do you think that police are only targeting Muslims? They are surveillancing anything or anyone that they in their mind are going against them. The Houston Police Department used to have a secret surveillance squad. Fortunately, victims of their illegal actions sued the police department and so the city of houston had to pay millions to the victims and had to disband the squad (this is a reference to the Ibarra brothers and other pending trials that are occuring in Houston against the HPD's spying problems).

So maybe were are not a communist country. It seems it may be worse than that: a police state in which our freedoms are just illusions.

ej · 1 year ago

No one deserves to be beaten - no one - and certainly not this young man. Police may need to restrain someone for their own protection and the protection of others, but seldom does that require any sustained beating.

There are many good ethical cops with decent motives, but there are plenty who should never ever be allowed to neither be in a position of authority nor carry guns and sticks with a license to use them.

Having grown up on the East side of Los Angeles, I have had life long dealings with the police. I've never been arrested, never in a gang, and never in trouble of any kind with the police. Nonetheless, I've been hassled, my vehicle searched, I've been intimidated, verbally abused, and even detained. Why is this? Probably because I was young and Hispanic and lived in the "wrong" part of town.

Anyone who is out of the mainstream (blacks, Latinos, poor, youth, protesters, someone wearing baggy pants, it used to be any male with long hair, anyone with opinions that differ from the so-called norm) understands how this works and could see that what this young man was doing was very risky behavior.

Of course I have no idea what happened - I can only go on what I've read and seen on the video, but it seems like he pissed off some cops and they found him after the cameras were no longer around. It is no secret to many that some cops practice payback and maybe that's what happened.

In the cops culture there is huge pressure to always protect their own. It sounds like all the "authorities" involved proceeded circle the wagons - no record of injuries, no medical treatment, no record of arrest, haul in all the witnesses, no record of a phone out to the parents, probably no record of the parent's calls.

Someone said that nothing in this story is verifiable - including what the cops did or didn't do.

People every day encounter for the first time the rouge element of law enforcement and become outraged and even radicalized about something that many of us have known about all our lives.

I think that what we are seeing in St. Paul is an extreme, emboldened application of a mentality in the police that has always existed and evidenced by some of the sentiments expressed here, but has mainly heretofore been perpetrated mostly upon the marginalized of society.

My hope is that when the powerful and privileged become radicalized we will see the demise of this "them versus us" mentality that leads to this brutality.

All humanity suffers when this goes on, and will continue to suffer if we allow this to continue.

ej · 1 year ago

Correction!

Besides the obvious typos - that should read "rogue" not "rouge."

It's always best to slow down as much as possible. I read the thing three times before posting and it still slipped by.

Heartbroken Citizen · 1 year ago

I am white and middle class and have felt the strong arm of police power trips. I can't imagine what it is like for non-whites. And you have hit the head on the nail about no record on the cops part either, which is very disturbing. Our family has found that the so-called freedom of information act is not as accessible as it is made out to be. Our family underwent a nightmare a year ago and whenever we ask for certain documentation of our case, we cannot get it--we get all kinds of run-a-rounds or no answers at all. Also, in some aspects of our case, we are told that they don't have to provide us with any kind of documentation. Kind of scary, since you don't know what is being said in the reports.

Nader Paul Kucinich Gravel · 1 year ago

Veterans
Independents
Real Conservatives

End Neocon GREED
Ron Ralph St Paul United

"America where are you now?
Don't you care about your sons and daughters?
Don't you know we need you now
We can't fight alone against the monster"

nader paul kucinich gravel
mckinney ventura too
perot charts
RATM

Jess · 1 year ago

I saw your son when this picture was taken, and was very moved by the action. I am sorry to hear he was a victim of police brutality. Over-reactions by the police were all to frequent in response to Monday's protest. Police have no right to terrorize citizens.

PierreLeclerke · 1 year ago

I am so sorry to hear of the traumatic incident your son and your family as well as all law abiding citizens have suffered at the brutal hands of what has become lawless behavior on the part of what were once proud public servants.
All should be shocked at our new police state and the enhanced powers it has gained under the guise of "Protect America" from terrorism with the true goal of suppression of descent!

stephan geras · 1 year ago

Police have training in handling weapons and if nothing is happening, will be far more inclined to use them at the slightest provocation. As far as ugly police conduct and coverups, don't you folks read or listen to news other than mainstream? Hundreds of unarmed and innocent young black men in the USA are beaten, jailed and, yes, killed, assasinated with bullets, excessive numbers of bullets (50?) and not one policeman is ever convicted. Abner Louima was one exception because shoving a plunger up someone's rectum elicited a lot of press and public indignation. Oh, and if you are assaulted by police and nobody's filming, the "resisting arrest and assault of a polceman" works 100% in any US court especially with the corroborating testimony of the always present partner. The only recourse for victims is civil courts. Sad but true. Sue the city. Gather a lot of evidence, and get a good lawyer, from someplace that takes on litigation on civil rights or first amendment issues. (The Center for Legal Rights? I think it's called that, on Park Ave or Portland Ave.) There's a ton of precedents in the country. For example, have you viewed the video of the critical mass rider in NYC getting knocked over by a cop? The cop was a provisional so he lost his job, and the kid who was assaulted is ....guess what?.....suing the city. But there was a video.

Heartbroken Citizen · 1 year ago

Here, here! Are you saying that someone actually sued the cops and won? All the lawyers and sites we consulted said that we could not sue the cops, they are immune from such lawsuits. Unless you can prove malice. However, I noticed that you said the provisional cop lost his job--did he suffer legal consequences though? Did he go to jail or get probation or any other legal stuff? Did he just loose his job? Better believe though if it was a civilian, they would suffer legal consequences. And if you can bring a suit, you better win or you are responsible for ALL costs.

Mirar · 1 year ago

Yeah you can sue the city for illegal police actions through civil suits and win if you have truth on your side (evidence of the wrongdoings, etc). This has already occurred against the Houston police department. Victims of the harassment and surveillance of the HPD had sued the police department and won in court . The HPD had to disband a police group known as the "secret surveillance squad" because of it. I

Laurie · 1 year ago

I am so sorry for this to have happened to your beautiful son.

rob · 1 year ago

Your both idiots, for the love of god, why is it so hard for you to accept the reality of situation, if you put yourself in harms way you will get hurt. its simple logic, if you walk onto train tracks you'll get mowed down by a train, so if you walk in between a riot and the police you're going to be arrested, he took the risks, he made the choices, he must take personal responsibility.

Robert FitzGibbon · 1 year ago

Do you not see it? Have you not seen it coming? Did you think the "War on Drugs" was about law enforcement or support of the consitution? That slippery slope has been getting steeper and sloppy over the last 100 years,.......income taxation, wars for profit, military drafts, swat teams, no-knock warrants, corporate prisons.....I could go on, but I think you get the point.....as a family member of a family of corrupt cops.....and having been around corrupt cops my entire life,......I'm quite sure the young man pissed off some already amped boys in blue and they delivered the time honored lesson they think will help young boys grow up to be a solid citizen.....I still say that all on-duty law enforcement should be forced to wear badges that double as digital video recorders and at then end of each shift should be required to be downloaded to a public access main frame.......only way to get the ones that are criminal creeps to behave......

Regards,

RJF

Robin Presley · 1 year ago

All I can is WOW! I am so sorry about what happened to your son and family and I can also relate. First, though, I want to inform you that you cannot sue the police--you cannot sue police or judges, these lawsuits are considered frivolous-- unless you can prove malice and/or prove some kind of crime occurred. I have been doing extensive, and yes, obsessive research and I have yet to find a case where an officer goes to jail for brutality. They may get fired (which is rare, I only found one case), they may go on trial or are investigated, but never do jail time. My family and I found this out a year ago. I can tell you so much when it comes to how out of control law enforcement has gotten out of control. Law enforcement now is just one huge power trip and we are constantly seeing in the news how they are being granted more and more broad powers--confiscating cameras, phones, and computers and such. It is my contention we are living in a culture of fear since 9-11. A year ago, our family found out that the rights we thought we had as American citizens do not work the way we thought they were suppose to work. Now I see that I had a Hollywood idea of truth, justice, and the American way, when in reality, all there is are the three Ps=policy, procedures, and politics. What is really bad is not only are you traumatized because your family has been attacked by the very institutions you pay taxes and allegiance to but in a sense, there is a feeling of your country breaking your heart and that my friend feels just as bad. And to make matters worse is that no one will listen. At least, in our case, we wrote and called everyone you can imagine and no one listened or cared. If they did, it was only to quote policy. Lawyers were completely ineffectual; however, again, I realize now that I had a Hollywood idea of what lawyers do and can do. I could go on and on and it is mostly negative. I can leave you with this--in the past, I believed in all the American rhetoric and ideology, now I have come to realize that justice is a construct . But to leave you with something positive: Family is the only thing worth fighting for! I wish you tons and tons of luck! ~a broken hearted sympathizer

notproud · 1 year ago

I am very sorry to see what happened to your son. Some of these comments are so cold and heartless (leave it to the Repubs), that I'm not even sure if you're still reading them. But in response to your last sentence, contact the National Lawyers Guild. They have had a heavy presence around MPLSTP during the RNC.

Parsanna · 1 year ago

Sounds like the Gestapo to me. The McCain campaign is also smearing anyone who questions Palin's ability to run the country.

Parsanna · 1 year ago

Romney - no Republicans just try to kill their enemies.

Jennifer · 1 year ago

May any man who raises a hand against the innocent and helpless lose that it and be left with a withered stump that shall bring him nothing but the same pain that he inflicted so cruelly on others.

Michael · 1 year ago

Don't they look so brave standing there in their uniforms , holding their batons, guns at their hips, protective helmets and dark visors-they don't even have the guts to identify themselves. Cowards and bullies every last one of them. I'd challenge one to meet me on his own in a fair match and we'd see just what a bunch of wimps these bulllies are when they don't have a gang or their weapons.

Your son has learnt a lesson the hard way Melissa and that's a shame but he is now a little wiser if bruised. Those behind him have learnt nothing. Karma will treat thenm unkindly and what goes around comes around. Your son will grow as a good spirit while heirs diminishes every day. We should feel sorry for them-they are going to a very bad place at the end of their lives.

Confused · 1 year ago

I am sorry, but I am very confused. Is it now a requirement that all police are Republicans? I was not aware of this rule. It is absolutely terrible that these things occur but you should be blaming the anarchists for this heightened action. Not to say he was an anarchist at all, but those are the people that are to blame, not the rich or the white. Those are ridiculous comments and the ignorance and Left Wing bias couldn't be more present. I love when people throw around the word "peace" like that is some attainable world goal. There are bad people in the world, that will never change, find another call to action...I know many police men/women and many of them share the same viewpoints as these protestors...realize it!!

Times Up · 1 year ago

Give the police what they give the citizens. Give them a serious reason to fear using unnecessary violence. There are fewer cops than their are citizens.

Confused · 1 year ago

Yes, rise up and take out the police, that is a fine idea. While you are at it, why don't you smash a few windows over at Macy's, that is very productive behavior. That can only help to accomplish your goal of "peace".

Fonosnatas · 1 year ago

I have a right to rape torture and kill a rotten pig-fucking war-supporting cop piece of shit as long as I can get away with it. Fuck all you fascist vermin. It is time for a war at home. Tyrants get what they deserve. From now on I'm treating everyone who supports the war and police brutality as enemies to be exterminated. Clearly that is what you all want to do to us. We might as well do it to you fucking pro-washington pentagon filth FIRST.

Confused · 1 year ago

I am embarrased to live in the same country as people like you. I am pretty sure you don't even know the definition of fascism....I am sure you are just trying to get a rise out of people, but you just sound like uneducated filth. Fight war with war...very wise. I am also sure you take my comments as war-supporting, rich, white-guy banter...also, complete and utter ignorance.

jeff · 1 year ago

I am so tired of the cops beating people for no reason. I mean they must be really bored to just look around and say, oh lets beat him. Another cop says he didn't do anything he is just holding a pretty flower and there are really bad guys we should get. No I want to beat someone doing nothing. Did he deserved to get beat (if he really was) probably not. Did he so something to provoke the cops? Probably. I'm sure the cops felt threatened when he started going through his backpack. How would they know what he had in there? I didn't know cops carried t shirts around with flags on it. Get real lady. The story sounds ridiculous. It really does.

Nicci · 1 year ago

Dear Ms. Milissa Smith-Tourville,
I am so sorry, and devistated for your family's misfortune. Sincerly, this sort of thing should not (and I repeat 'NOT' in the most heartfelt scream possible) happen in the United States of America! It's... hard to even imagine. If anyone is saying otherwise, they are a poor excuse for a human being.
I must admit I do have a rather selfish reason to add a comment, as my best friend of five years was arrested for nothing more than peaceful protest. If you can, it would quite my fears and sorrow if you could e-mail me, and please tell me that your story has a happy ending.
With sorrow,
Nicci

Michael123 · 1 year ago

Dear Melissa, I am deeply sorry and extremely outraged to hear of the story of your son and my prayers are with you and him and family. This country is really spinning out of control and we must be diligent in bringing as much attention to these kinds of abhorrent abuses of power as we possibly can. These men turned from officer's of the law to criminals the night they assaulted your son. I hope that with your legal advice urges an FBI probe is a result, any internal probe by this police department will obviously be a joke. Only the Republicans know how to abuse power as cruelly as with your son, bless his heart. These officers and this department MUST be held accountable and must be made an example of; it seems as though it is the only way these kinds of people will ever 'GET IT'! We have a right to peacefully assemble in this country and it is not exclusive to the narrow minded Republicans. What happened to your minor child at the hands of these men must NOT go unpunished. I'm sorry that I was not there and did not see anything as I am in Michigan but I would urge you to call your local television news station if you haven't already and keep putting this story out there until they HAVE to deal with it, the law is on your side!! They should be investigated, they should be sued in a criminal and civil case, $ hit 'em where it hurts it's the only thing they understand. God Bless you and Keith. Truly Michael

Keith · 1 year ago

I remember the outrage we felt when the man at Tienanmen Square was arrested. He wasn't beatened, simply arrested. Yet, rightly so, most US citizens stood up for this man that was just trying "Freedom of Speech." The images of the actions which the police took during the RNC were absolutely shocking. Maybe, we should call this area of the Twin Cities, "Tienanmen Square." Another thing that is amazing is that not one Republican said anything about the actions of the police. I'm a registered Republican but am going to vote for Obama now.

b · 1 year ago

getting as bad as china - sickening

AnarPointFinal · 1 year ago

Ask for CopWatch collectiv of your region if you have one, and if not I really don't know how your could get helped. A last thing: The sword itself insignt to violence. By carrying weapon everyday and sometime having the right to use them, police officer get violent. They are only Law enforcement technicien, they ( I generalise I know) respond to no moral but the law, and since the law can be immoral or could be interpreted or applicated in a immoral way, it's not a surprise that cops act like they did ( and believe me it's not the first story I've heard about police brutality).

Good luck and Viva Anarkhia!

donna · 1 year ago

Melissa... as a mother GOOD GOD... what were they thinking. Good Luck and Portland,Or is watching. Love and blessings to you and your family.

Jessica · 1 year ago

This is the 60's all over again. Haven't we learned anything? I sit here, on the verge of tears, knowing my whole life I have been lied to. Why? Why? Why is this happening?


I dont have any suggestions for the family but I will do all I can to get the word out about this horrific police brutality crime. Please, everyone, pass the word around. We can't let this happen to our country.

Nick · 1 year ago

Despicable.

My heart goes out to you. I witnessed so much of this same type of behavior illicited by the St. Paul police force. It was disheartening, but at the same time lit a fire inside of me that will not soon be quenched.

Police brutality is very real and gaining popularity across the board. It is something that needs to be stopped immediately.

Again, I feel for you and your son.

Life, love, and liberation.

Nicholas.

BaDeepBoomBop · 1 year ago

sadly many cops are just a bunch of punks that get off on violence. cowards that hide behind their badges and when they do get fucked up or shot they cry about it....or die. ether way is straight with me.

None · 1 year ago

Fuck you alex, fuck you.

George Bush · 1 year ago

Your kid got owned by the police, who warned him to move along. The police have a larger mission and that is to protect the public from these feces-throwing morons that roamed St Paul for a week. Go McCain!!! Go Palin!!!! Go Republican machine!!!!!!

anon · 1 year ago

Mom, are you for real? Sitting in the street is all of the above: illegal, dangerous and innappropriate. Sitting in the street in front of 2 dozen riot police is down right stupid. Why would a parent allow their minor child to attend a demonstration where it is almost certain that there is going to be violence? I have a very hard time with anyone saying that this kid did nothing wrong. The kid should have known the possible consequences of his actions and if he didn't, perhaps a parent should have informed him. So, in the end, the police did EXACTLY what they said they would do and now mom is upset? I think that the kid should get out from behind mom's apron and take this like a man. This is one of lifes many lessons kid...

Deborah · 1 year ago

It makes me sick to hear about your wonderful son's abuse. I was traumatized as well after the protest on Labor Day. I am experiencing post traumatic stress symptoms and am trying to get some help. It will help him to talk to other survivors as part of the healing process. I was not present for his beating but know there is another mom out there who understands

Mark · 1 year ago

FUCK THE POLICE

Polite Boy · 1 year ago

You don't need more than one cop for a freekin kid who is 17! He's not big and scary/violent guy. He didn't have any kind of weapon either.

SPPD have violated their own citizens. What a bunch of fascist bullies.
They were doing crowd pluckings on the 4th at the capitol grounds, attempting to incite a riot!

Our government is already full of liars, fascists, and war hawks. It's time for change.

It's not legal to beat citizens to a pulp. Elliot Hughes is another young man who was brutalized in his cell. Spread the word like Wild Fire, because the SPPD is guilty and will be proven in a court of law!

WHO'S STREETS? OUR STREETS! WHO'S WAR? THEIR WAR!
The authorities always make up an excuse to use more power. The patriot act is one example. Don't forget Gitmo on Cuban soil. Remember the "evidence" of a "weapon of mass destruction" in Iraq? Another big fat lie to justify excessive force. Liars, Liars, Liars!

LET US USE OUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH TO DENOUNCE THIS BULLSH*T!

dave akins · 1 year ago

It is useless to try to convince somebody that the cops are brutal fucks who will use any excuse to use force. If you taunt the cops, dont complain when they kick your ass; it isn't a sign of strength to complain about it. People always say that the police dont have the right to use force, and I agree but they still have the power. You children have a lot to learn about human nature. You think that just because you are "enlightened", the police wont touch you. Perhaps it is that way in movies and books, but in real life any cop is going to go with his 'gang', not some dirty kids who are scoffing at local laws. It is a breakdown in freedom to be sure.

dave akins · 1 year ago

It is useless to try to convince somebody that the cops are brutal fucks who will use any excuse to use force. If you taunt the cops, dont complain when they kick your ass; it isn't a sign of strength to complain about it. People always say that the police dont have the right to use force, and I agree but they still have the power. You children have a lot to learn about human nature. You think that just because you are "enlightened", the police wont touch you. Perhaps it is that way in movies and books, but in real life any cop is going to go with his 'gang', not some dirty kids who are scoffing at local laws. It is a breakdown in freedom to be sure.

KC · 1 year ago

I too am a mother whose child was involved in these protests, with my blessings. I would have been there too but I can't run so fast anymore. My 19 year old was arrested on 9-4-08 along with many others who were peacefully protesting but the permit had expired. The riot police ordered everyone to leave but then blocked off all the exits and tear gassed the crowd. There are other stories too that I could tell but I won't bore you, we've heard all this already. Atrocities all around.

There is legal action being taken, my daughter and her friend have already been to 2 meetings with legal counsel. I won't let this rest myself, I am still so angry that peaceful protesters can be treated like this. I have been one myself on several occasions and still find it difficult to believe how the peaceful protesters were treated in St Paul. This treatment will not stand.

The police in St Paul had a 50 million grant from Homeland Security, because evidently the American people are the enemy now, so each arrest cost this country approximately $60K.

I read this from an anonymous source, and if I didn't think it credible I would not post it here.
quote: Aug 24 2008 2:17 PM

i talked to some Anonymous man in the military working at the rnc and he said if the protesters dont start a riot the military is ordered to start one for republican sympathy and so the can use those millions of dollars of "non-lethal" weapons they bought. such as rubber bullets, tasers, taser riot shields,and rubber ball grenades.

Gwen · 1 year ago

What an appalling story. The same thing nearly happened to my seventy-two year old mother at a protest in San Francisco. She was just trying to get away from an area that was heating up, and a bunch of cops surrounded her and her friend and started shoving them around.
Makes me wish I were a lawyer.

scytherius · 1 year ago

This is a police state. My respect for police is ZERO. This country needs to be taken back.

Richard · 1 year ago

Somehow I doubt you had any respect for the police to begin with.

scytherius · 1 year ago

That is because you are an ignorant buffoon. And, since I was BOTH a defense attorney AND prosecutor, I know whereof I speak. I have had to deal, as a prosecutor, with horibly frustrating prosecutions that were lost due to lying, pig police. So take your knuckles and drag them back into your cave.

Richard · 1 year ago

On the internet you can pretend to be anything. So sure, I believe you.

scytherius · 1 year ago

Meaningless that you believe me but ask any lawyer what rule states that an interest must vest, if at all, in a life in being +21 years. If you can answer that one, you are an attorney. Tis the R.A.P. And I don't think you are a real human being so I suppose we are even.

Richard · 1 year ago

Then you out of all these posters should know that there are good cops and bad cops. To lump them all together smacks of your inability to make sound judgments. I would be worried if you were representing me.

Heartbroken Citizen · 1 year ago

On the contrary scytherius, you are exactly the kind of lawyer I want!

Chris · 1 year ago

To those who disrespect good law enforcers, YOU CAN GO TO HELL. SCREW YOU!!!! I hope the
cops trash you, ha ha ha ha!!!!!

scytherius · 1 year ago

So many ignorant . . . . so few alien abductions.

mace · 1 year ago

Chris, you will change your mind under marshal law. pick.

Michael · 1 year ago

and Chris is another like Richard who think they will be able to walk down the street and be completely immune from a sudden bashing from the cops.

The upside is that they will always be an honest defense attorney like scytherius to help them out.

Fonosnatas · 1 year ago

Chris, I hope someone kills you and your whole fucking family you rotten fascist piece of filth. You think your "laws" are invincible don't you? Well they are not.

None · 1 year ago

Shut the fuck up little boy, I'd change your attitude if you wish to survive in the real world.

Goddamn troll.

bob · 1 year ago

i hope she does something about this, this is the USA not Russia, sue the shit out of the city!

Tex · 1 year ago

Congratulations police. The Nazi's couldn't do much better. How much more clear can it be that Godwin's supposition is not worthy?

Fonosnatas · 1 year ago

Go back to Texas Tex. Rotten pro-washington filth like you should die like the Tutsis died in Rwanda.

Nader Paul Kucinich Gravel · 1 year ago

Gov Jesse Ventura, USN:

"The HELL with the Patriot Act"

02 SEP 08
1630 hours

ST. Louis park · 1 year ago

I live in Minnesota. I know for a fact that the cops in Minneapolis and ST. Paul have a long history of brutality. Their leadership has always been unstable and, therefore, uncountable.

Let's see: Beat the protesters so the well-off can party in the very streets where your son's blood ran.

anonymous · 1 year ago

FUCK THA POLICE

Booo · 1 year ago

why's the guy from escape from new york lying in the street. Protesting doesn't work you dumb sheep